Matt RaibleMatt Raible is a Java Champion and Developer Advocate at Okta.

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Over 10 years ago, I wrote my first blog post. Since then, I've authored books, had kids, traveled the world, found Trish and blogged about it all.

Comparing Java Web Frameworks Presentation on

The good folks from JavaZone have published a video of the Comparing Java Web Frameworks presentation I did in Oslo in September. Enjoy!

Update: In this presentation, I say we've chosen Struts 2 at LinkedIn. Even though it solved most of our problems, I'm also now prototyping with Spring MVC. I wish JSP/JSTL had a way to call methods with arguments like Struts' OGNL supports.

Posted in Java at Nov 23 2007, 10:17:43 AM MST 14 Comments

Hello Matt, it's without the trailing 'a' :)

Posted by Stephan on November 24, 2007 at 03:39 AM MST #

I watched it yesterday and I enjoyed seeing you.

Posted by Jorge Diaz Tambley on November 24, 2007 at 06:47 AM MST #

Thanks Stephan - fixed now.

Posted by Matt Raible on November 24, 2007 at 08:07 AM MST #

Nice talk Matt, didn't know you were a comic too ;) When I saw the running time (an hour), I wasn't going to watch it all, but it was so entertaining that it was finished before I knew it. Great work.

Posted by Sonny Gill on November 24, 2007 at 12:22 PM MST #

Sounds like you want to use jboss-el? Afaik it's a separate project and jar from seam...

Posted by Magnus Heino on November 24, 2007 at 03:40 PM MST #

I'm aware of JBoss-EL, but I don't believe it can be plugged in as the JSP EL in Tomcat. JUEL is similar and Tomcat needs to be patched in order to replace the native EL interpreter.

Posted by Matt Raible on November 24, 2007 at 04:24 PM MST #

Excellent video! I want to work on two big projects now, one with Spring MVC and another with Struts2. My choice is between the two somewhere. David

Posted by David Whitehurst on November 24, 2007 at 07:59 PM MST #

Good presentation, good to get the chance to see it rather than reading slides. What is making you now look at Spring MVC for your prototype..

Posted by reddeagle on November 26, 2007 at 09:46 AM MST #

I wish JSP/JSTL had a way to call methods with arguments...

Shouldn't be too difficult to create EL functions based on java.beans.Expression and/or java.beans.Statement.

Posted by Kris Schneider on November 27, 2007 at 09:10 AM MST #

> What is making you now look at Spring MVC for your prototype.

The reasons are more strategy and politics related than technical. They're already using Spring MVC in some applications and using Spring heavily on the backend, so they'd prefer to unify. Also, the fact that they're writing some Grails applications further supports Spring MVC.

Posted by Matt Raible on November 27, 2007 at 04:47 PM MST #

Good luck with Struts 2.

After the Struts2 tags mess with OGNL, and some strange behaviour with poor validation, and short comings with things like nested loops with struts tags I'm about to migrate my projects over to SpringMVC.

I understand the security concerns for removing the OGNL stuff, but seriously, a bug comes along and after a minor revision each JSP has to be updated to not use OGNL?!?! And this is the solution? That was the straw on the camels back.

Struts 2 is wonderful conceptual, and feels clean and elegant - then you use it.

You mention in your presentation (which I dug) about "you know, you make all these changes and implementations and you've basically written your own framework".

Thats where I'm at. Having to patch and reimplement base functionality so that it works without bugs. (An example of this is unselecting all items in a checkbox list - The issue still exists, but its marked as resolved).

I dont have the luxury of time to patch this kind of thing - or investigate why its not working. (and i dont profess to be smart enough to figure it out either).

My experience with SpringMVC was that it works, the controller is slightly less elegant, but it WORKS.

I hope you are:

  1. successful in using struts 2 at linked in, and
  2. fix the problems and commit to core :) so one day, i can possibly think about using Struts 3.

Posted by Ned on November 27, 2007 at 07:02 PM MST #

the above should read not use OGNL in struts tags.

Posted by Ned on November 27, 2007 at 11:40 PM MST #

I reopened <>. It was marked as a duplicate for another issue that focussed on the checkbox, and the point that the checkoxlist (surprisingly!) doesn't use the checkbox tag was overlooked. Though, we're still missing a complete patch. There's a partial patch on the ticket, but it needs to cope with a null collection. -Ted.

Posted by Ted Husted on November 28, 2007 at 06:42 AM MST #

Ted: I know there is a partial :) I put part of it there in June!! Surprising that after 24 hours of my post here, its getting attention! Matt: Sorry for hijacking the blog ! - stopping posting now.

Posted by Ned on November 28, 2007 at 04:38 PM MST #

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