Matt RaibleMatt Raible is a Java Champion and Developer Advocate at Okta.

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Over 10 years ago, I wrote my first blog post. Since then, I've authored books, had kids, traveled the world, found Trish and blogged about it all.

David Geary won't learn Tapestry, but he'll write a book about Rails

Sorry David, but I have to call you out on this one. Yesterday, you wrote a long post about how you won't use Tapestry b/c you have bills to pay.

Do I use Tapestry? Heck no. I have a mortgage to pay. Besides, I'm so comfortable with JSF that I don't know if it'd be worth the investment for me to switch to Tapestry. Also, JSF already enjoys more industry support and that gap will widen considerably over the next couple years as Tapestry maintains a small but rabid group of followers in a niche market, whereas JSF will dethrone Struts as the reigning king of Java-based WAFs. JSF will eventually have support for HTML views and custom components devoid of Java code, in addition to many other cool features such as built-in AJAX support and client-side validation.

Today we find that you're writing a book on Rails. So rather than spending the time to learn Tapestry b/c it doesn't pay the bills - you're going to learn Rails? What makes you think it will pay the bills better than Tapestry? Is Shale still the next big thing for you - or do you just like writing books? ;-)

Posted in Java at Mar 22 2005, 10:48:21 AM MST 14 Comments

Matt, maybe that's a strong case for us all to meetup at the next OrlandoJUG meeting... (check out the topic)

Posted by Michael Levin on March 22, 2005 at 02:35 PM MST #

Is it safe to assume that David is saying that Rails pays better then Tapestry? Furtehr, can we assume that David is saying Rails pays better then Shale? I gotta say the author pair is interesting. In Bruce you have a guy who gives you tons of theory and little code. And then David gives tons of code and less theory. I bet the book is good.

Posted by Erik Weibust on March 22, 2005 at 03:10 PM MST #

Here are some thoughts: I don't have a contract for a Rails book I don't have a contract for Core Shale either, but I'm writing it for sure IMO, Shale is a sure-fire hit. ROR is a darkhorse. And they can both co-exist nicely. I've already learned Tapestry and I love it. Like Matt, I'm a techno-whore. I love to explore new stuff. Struts, Tiles, SiteMesh, JSF, Tapestry, ROR, Spring, Hibernate, Canoo, Swing!, bring 'em on baby, I love to learn. A tip-of-the-hat to Matt, btw. I pick up a lot of cool stuff at this blog. I plan on paying the bills with JSF and Shale, but ROR does give me pause. Who knows? I marvel at how many people slice up their worlds into either-ors. Either JSF or Tapestry. Rails or Shale. Tiles or SiteMesh. I'll take them all. Thanks for the kind words about Bruce and I, Erik. I also think we complement each other well.

Posted by David Geary on March 22, 2005 at 05:48 PM MST #

Matt would you just drink your RoR koolaid and get it over with?

Posted by RoR Borg on March 22, 2005 at 06:38 PM MST #

I agree with David's sentiments. I like technology too. I would have no problem working on a Rails based project or Tapestry. JSF, Spring and Hiberante are paying my bills. Matt maybe its time to add a Rails version of AppFuse. :o) I'll buy a copy of David and Bruce's RoR book. I saw the Trails demo at TSSS. It looked cool. I am still excited about JSF, and have not looked at Shale much. It sounds cool.

Posted by Rick Hightower on March 22, 2005 at 11:37 PM MST #

Well, I guess if you can combine getting up-to-speed with a new technology along with a chance to publish, why not.

On the other hand, Matt, what with your existing setup with SourceBeat, you might want to investigate if it's feasible/viable to do a quick "Learning the Rails" book before all the traditional press-based books arrive! :-)

Posted by Gwyn Evans on March 23, 2005 at 07:11 AM MST #

Hey, Matt, your DB is screwed. The Equinox JSF demo site says: Caused by: java.sql.SQLException: User not found: SA Keep up the good work! Cheers, t

Posted by thot on March 23, 2005 at 08:57 AM MST #

Sorry about that thot - fixed now.

Posted by Matt Raible on March 23, 2005 at 10:37 AM MST #

Does anyone have any realworld, non-toy examples of rails, or at least one production site I could look at?

Posted by on March 23, 2005 at 12:13 PM MST #

There's a small section called "Real-life apps" on the left column of The Ruby On Rails site ( that has a few production sites.

Posted by Gwyn Evans on March 23, 2005 at 02:47 PM MST #

production site for -

Posted by luc on March 24, 2005 at 05:40 AM MST #

[Trackback] Raible Designs: (comment from David Geary) "Struts, Tiles, SiteMesh, JSF, Tapestry, ROR, Spring, Hibernate, Canoo, Swing!, bring 'em on baby, I love to learn...I pick up a lot of cool stuff at this blog. I plan on paying the bills with JSF and Shale,...

Posted by Michael Levin's Weblog on March 24, 2005 at 07:35 AM MST #

Urgh, technowhoring should be made illegal. This whole thread proves that JSF people on the whole are a bunch of whining hypocrites who as a result of using too much struts, aren't quite dealing with a full deck.

Posted by Hani Suleiman on March 24, 2005 at 08:16 AM MST #

Urgh, I just downloaded AppFuse and tried JSF. You guys were so right. JSF is a spectacular implementation of CDD. My life has been a sham. I drink my own bath water. David rocks. RoR is next on my list. Excuse me... I have to go maintain my EJB 2.1 app.

Posted by Hani Suleiman on March 24, 2005 at 04:58 PM MST #

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