Matt RaibleMatt Raible is a Java Champion and Developer Advocate at Okta.

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Over 10 years ago, I wrote my first blog post. Since then, I've authored books, had kids, traveled the world, found Trish and blogged about it all.

Seam 1.0

I've posted my thoughts on Seam 1.0 to my Virtuas blog. What are your thoughts?

It's great to see the release of Seam 1.0. Seam is similar to many full-stack frameworks like Rails, Rife and AppFuse in that it gives you all the pieces you'll need to build a kick-ass web application.

I've blogged my thoughts on Seam before, so there's no need to do that again. I like the idea, especially the lack of interfaces and the 3-files-for-each page idea. However, I don't know that this concept will fly with Java developers. I agree there's a need to simplify, but many of us are mesmerized by the de-coupling that Spring gives us. So now we're programming to interfaces, and every-so-often swapping implementations. I don't know that we can switch to this simpler model. And then there's the "EJB" thing. I think there will be a fair amount of developers that don't use EJB3 simply because it has the "EJB" name. The best thing the EJB Expert Group could have done for EJB3 would be to give it a new name.

The other thing I worry about with Seam is that it wasn't developed from an existing application. AFAIK, it didn't get extracted from a real-world application that had all the problems that Seam solves. I know that Gavin is a smart guy, and he's probably seen these problems in the real world, but there's nothing like developing a real-world application with a technology - and then extracting the framework from that.

In reality, I'm probably jealous. Seam has some really cool features, JBoss has done a great job of marketing it, and it seems to be a really cool way to develop applications. If I'm going to make AppFuse a direct competitor to Seam, it's gonna be quite the uphill battle.

Posted in Java at Jun 13 2006, 04:45:48 PM MDT 5 Comments

Matt, on your Virtuas blog entry about Seam, you had a parting disclaimer that said that "In reality you are probably just jealous of Seam".

I beg to differ, don't sell yourself short. Your appraisal of Seam was dead on accurate. For starters, you are right Seam positions itself as a product that can easily integrate with EJBs......yeah, EJBs? Even EJB3 - you are right the best thing that EG could have done was rename EJB to something else.

Also, the fact that Seam was just invented out of thin air is another cause for concern.

Posted by Tim O'Brien on June 20, 2006 at 09:14 AM MDT #

Seam can work with POJOs and Hibernate in Tomcat. EJB is not required

Posted by on June 25, 2006 at 04:18 AM MDT #

I think it was important to declare EJB3, and not change the name, because it sent a signal about EJB2. I would argue that EJB3's name is changing: JPA. (At least for the Entity EJBs.) I think Entity beans are going to be so common that they will be folded into the JDK (7!) and referred to as JPA. You will be able to use them in a Web app, console app, or Swing app. I expect the "EJB" label to continue to refer to Session, Message, and Timer beans.

Posted by on February 03, 2007 at 05:58 PM MST #

Now that Seam 1.1.5 GA is released, has your opinion changed? Note that you don't even need EJBs anymore.

Posted by on February 03, 2007 at 06:04 PM MST #

I think Facelets is a must if you're going to use JSF. I also think Seam and Shale sound like nice frameworks on top of JSF. If you look at JSF as similar to the Servlet API, it's an acceptable technology. Using it bare-bones with JSP is an as silly as using Servlets with JSPs (without a web framework).

My opinion of Seam is I need to learn it sometime this year. However, I'm putting Stripes, Wicket, GWT, Rails and Grails before it. Since I know JSF and JPA fairly well, I'm guessing Seam won't be too hard to learn.

Posted by Matt Raible on February 03, 2007 at 06:13 PM MST #

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