Matt RaibleMatt Raible is a Web Developer and Java Champion. Connect with him on LinkedIn.

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Over 10 years ago, I wrote my first blog post. Since then, I've authored books, had kids, traveled the world, found Trish and blogged about it all.

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Tuesday December 07, 2004

The Future of the J2EE Web Tier

There's a chat in a few hours on the future of the J2EE Web Tier. I'll be sitting in and hoping to learn something. The alignment of the JSP EL and JSF EL will be nice - but we really want HTML Templating for JSF - like Tapestry. After developing Tag Soup JSPs for JSF and HTML-editor-friendly pages for Tapestry, I can say there's definitely a big difference. Tapestry templates are much easier to read. However, if you have an existing JSP app, you can migrate to JSF easier.

Posted in Java at Dec 07 2004, 09:30:02 AM MST 7 Comments
Comments:

Matt, I hope you don't mind me posting a small rant that I have. I'll be the first to admit I'm new to the J2EE game and even newer to the web frameworks (struts, spring, etc), but I've noticed a consistent trend with most tutorials and startup guides that has been frustrating. That has been the exclusive use of the HSQL db. To the inexperienced user, such as myself, when I run across minor errors trying to deploy an app, they've turned out to be quite often because of this db. I saw the mention in one of your blog posts that you try to make the startup as easy as possible, but I think it actually makes the process more difficult. First and foremost, because it just something else you have to figure out how to use/how it works, and that only worsens the already tough learning curve. Do people really use HSQL outside of J2EE examples? That was said in partial jest because I'm sure there are, but I have to wonder, because I didn't even hear about it until I started looking into J2EE. Is it really that difficult to install a mysql or postgres db on windows or unix? I can have a useable db running on my bsd box with a "pkg_add -r postgresql" command. It doesn't get much simpler. That having been said, believe me, I don't want to sound ungrateful to guys like you trying to help dumb people like me figure out how to use this stuff, but I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents. -PJ

Posted by PJ on December 08, 2004 at 08:04 AM MST #

AppFuse integrates with MySQL by default and makes it very easy to change to PostgreSQL. ;-)

Posted by Matt Raible on December 08, 2004 at 08:24 AM MST #

open mouth, insert foot. I coulda sworn when I did the quick startup for appfuse it was using hsql. I got scared by its complexity and started playing with equinox, so I very well could be wrong...either way you da man!

Posted by PJ on December 08, 2004 at 09:17 AM MST #

P.J, actually that's the question i've been asking myself; are there any people using HSQLDB in production environments? If not, why is it prevalent in J2EE samples?

Posted by Twice on December 08, 2004 at 09:33 AM MST #

At a couple different clients, we've been using hsqldb twofold: 1. for dev work at home, where the developers can run a script to export from the centralized enterprise dbms (Oracle, etc.) and take a small footprint db with them to code against wherever. 2. Our clients often need to deploy remotely, where network connectivity is not assured. As a fallback, we offer a one-click db snapshot to hsqldb and a flexible/independent web app model layer so that the apps will run offline.

Posted by Jason Graff on December 08, 2004 at 02:10 PM MST #

One reason hsql is used widely is because it is free to redistribute, doesn't require a traditional install and (in my experience) is pretty easy to work with. One nice feature that I've used quite a bit for unit testing is that you can run it totally in memory. I have also used this in memory feature for demo apps so that users can muck up the data all they want and the next time they run the app it is fresh again.

Posted by Robert McIntosh on December 08, 2004 at 02:34 PM MST #

Jason and Robert thanks so much for the info. Well appreciated.

Posted by Twice on December 09, 2004 at 10:16 AM MST #

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