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Thursday September 25, 2003

RE: IDEA vs Eclipse

I love Eclipse and always have. However, it kinda sucks on OS X. It is slow like Marcus says. Actually, it's a LOT snappier on my new PowerBook, but it's still much slower than it is on Windows. On Windows, it runs lickedy split and is by far my favorite IDE - because it *looks* like Windows more than anything. Inspired by Marcus's post, I'm willing to give IDEA another try on my OS X - I probably won't get enough time in the 30 day trial to appreciate it (or switch to it), but I'll make an attempt. BTW, I've actually heard that many of the "IDEA Rules" advocates actually got it for free - at least some OS projects' committers got a free copy. I'm sure if there was a 6 month trial version, and folks actually got addicted to it (like I am with Eclipse), they'd sell more copies. I'd pay for Eclipse right now if it weren't free.

Later: I already have one pet peeve - why can't I install IDEA in an "idea" folder rather than in "IntelliJ-IDEA-3.0.5". I install all my "tools" in /opt/dev/tools (i.e. /opt/dev/tools/eclipse) and this makes it very easy to tar xzf any new versions over old ones - and it just looks better. I hate when installers make you install their apps to a particular directory.

Posted in Java at Sep 25 2003, 07:25:52 AM MDT 20 Comments
Comments:

Hi! Yeah, I know what you mean. I tried Eclipse for myself on OS X. Although the latest 3.0 milestone looks promising it is far from being snappy. IDEA, however, is mostly usable despite minor interface glitches. The performance of Swing, however, could be much better, especially the scrolling speed. Even on a G5 1.8Ghz scrolling in IDEA sucks. I think this primarily a problem related to the JDK because the Swing performane of the old JDK 1.3 was much better IMHO.

Posted by Lars Hoss on September 25, 2003 at 08:17 AM MDT #

30 days is really more than enough time to become addicted to IDEA.

Posted by Rafe on September 25, 2003 at 08:54 AM MDT #

Eclipse.org has a several bugs on the MacOS X version that you may want keep an eye on. You can add yourself as a CC to any bug, if you have Eclipse.org bugzilla account. You find the entry on performance https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=36732. There is also plan task item that covers all MacOS X issues they are "planning" on fixing in V3.0 https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=37708 IDEA is very nice. I have my own copy of it. If I remember right, once a year they put it on sale for developers. I picked it up at that time last year. It was around $200 instead of $600, if I remember right. I use Eclipse mostly, but when something acts flaky I jump over to IDEA to make sure it isn't Eclipse. I tend to run the lastest Milestone version of Eclipse...sometimes I running the lastest integration build, so this isn't all that surpising to me. Anyhow, I hope this helps.

Posted by Jeff Duska on September 25, 2003 at 09:28 AM MDT #

I suggest you trying the current EAP, it still has some small bugs but much improved functionality & speed over the current GA release: http://www.intellij.net/eap/ (free registration)

Posted by Yann Cebron on September 25, 2003 at 11:08 AM MDT #

I evalutated both and actually found IDEA to be slightly better (for me is was VERY intuitive to use) however the "freeness" of eclipse won me over. If you don't mind cashing in your 401K for the 17" Powerbook then buying a $500 IDE shouldn't be that painful -;)

Posted by Kris Thompson on September 25, 2003 at 01:38 PM MDT #

'..if there was a 6 month trial version' - there's one, actually it lasts nearly 10 months, if you join free EAP at http://www.intellij.net/eap/ in the beginning of new release cycle. EAP starts some 2-3 months after major release and it takes almost one year to develop. Hardly usable in the first couple of months, it gets much better later on. EAP is way better than the regular version. I bought IDEA 2 years ago during Christmas sale for $200. New build can just overwrite the existing one, no need to use installer.

Posted by Edmundas Miseikis on September 25, 2003 at 03:47 PM MDT #

I would think as a webdevver you would like IDEA. I tried netbeans, eclipse, and IDEA and right now I am very happy with IDEA. The plugins are nice, the speed is nice, the small footprint is nice, and it just feels right you use it. When I last evaluated eclipse (jan of this year) the plugins were just not up to snuff for web development. I have not tried the EAP but I am close since I want to do some GUI work. I would be interested in seeing your reaction on OS X. A programmer on my team is getting the 12" powerbook and he uses idea.

Posted by Steven Citron-Pousty on September 25, 2003 at 06:07 PM MDT #

I agree, 30 days should be more than enough. I remember over a year ago I tried it out; I made myself STOP using it the second day because I knew I couldn't afford it.

Posted by Lance on September 25, 2003 at 07:33 PM MDT #

I spent about 30 minutes tooling around IDEA 3.05 tonight with my AppFuse project. I can definitely tell that this IDE rocks! I've always said that, I just like Eclipse too. In an ideal world, you can use either one to fit your job - right? I tend to use Dreamweaver, Homesite, vi and TopStyle all as web-file editors, so why can't I have more than one IDE. The one bad thing I found is that my build.xml doesn't work in IDEA - oh well, it doesn't work in Eclipse either. I think it's because it includes other XML files (based on Erik Hatcher's book).

To be completely honest, the UI is *spectacular* on OS X - it's got the small fonts (which I LOVE) - I hate how I can't make the Eclipse fonts any smaller. Also, it's pretty damn quick, which will always make any developers day.

Posted by Matt Raible on September 25, 2003 at 08:26 PM MDT #

OK, maybe it's not all that great - where's my CVS support? Eclipse has AWESOME CVS support.

Posted by Matt Raible on September 25, 2003 at 08:34 PM MDT #

Nevermind, I found it. Two things I'm disappointed in - that you have to choose a JDK and an output path - why can't it detect this information like Eclipse does (or at least guess - i.e. projectName/build).

Posted by Matt Raible on September 25, 2003 at 09:06 PM MDT #

Regarding CVS support: We are working on a native CVS client for OS X. We expect to release our first public beta soon. Stay tuned ;-)

Posted by Lars Hoss on September 26, 2003 at 03:19 AM MDT #

If your doing web dev stuff, you should try eclipse with the myeclipse plugin (www.myeclipseide.com) They have started releasing version for the latest milestone builds which is good, but only available to registered users (only $30/yr). I trid the IDEA EAP version a couple weeks ago for a bit, but I guess I was too used to eclipse, it didnt click for me at all.

Posted by Daniel Campagnoli on September 26, 2003 at 04:07 AM MDT #

CVS support is lacking in IDEA 3.0.5 but supposed to be improving in the EAP build. CVS in eclipse has always been great, especially with SSH.

Posted by Steven Citron-Pousty on September 26, 2003 at 04:25 AM MDT #

CVS Support in IDEA 3.0.5 is actually pretty robust - for the supported actions. True, features like tag aren't supported, but when you factor in the great diff tool, I'm willing to drop into a shell to tag.

Posted by Mark Donahue on September 26, 2003 at 09:23 AM MDT #

Yeah, I mispoke before about CVS in IDEA. Eclipses CVS support is awesome and easy to setup. IDEA takes a bit more work and is not as smooth. For example there is no way to import your code to create a new module on the server. I think its coming in EAP. So what I should have said is the CVS support is not as polished. Most major features are there but its not nearly as smooth as in eclipse. Another gripe with IDEA is that there is no way to exit a file <em>without</em> saving changes. You have to remember until your last undo or figure out how to use the local VCS to get there.

Posted by Steven Citron-Pousty on September 26, 2003 at 11:09 AM MDT #

As far as CVS support, I turn it off in Eclipse and IDEA. I've gotten used to Smart Cvs Works well, and I've gotten use to that perspective.

Posted by Matt P on September 26, 2003 at 04:03 PM MDT #

CVS Support in EAP is AWESOME, heads and shoulders above Eclipse and is based on smartcvs.

Posted by Andre Mermegas on September 26, 2003 at 11:48 PM MDT #

Steve, the EAP you can do all that and more, it also has a highlight in the gutter that shows spots where you code has changed,removed,added from the last commit.

Posted by Andre Mermegas on September 26, 2003 at 11:57 PM MDT #

I know this thread is old, but i just tried out idea and cant believe no one mentioned the bizarre behaviour of having a seperate menu bar?? am i missing something here?

Posted by Komal Sethi on November 04, 2003 at 06:10 PM MST #

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